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Podcast 2022-05-19

Frans de Waal || Gender Through the Eyes of a Primatologist

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Today we welcome Dr. Frans de Waal, a Dutch American biologist and primatologist known for his work on the behavior and social intelligence of primates. He is a professor in Emory University’s psychology department and the Director of the Living Links Center at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center. Chimpanzee Politics, The Age of Empathy, […]

Episode Details

Show Notes

Today we welcome Dr. Frans de Waal, a Dutch American biologist and primatologist known for his work on the behavior and social intelligence of primates. He is a professor in Emory University’s psychology department and the Director of the Living Links Center at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center. Chimpanzee Politics, The Age of Empathy, The Bonobo and the Atheist, and Mama’s Last Hug are among his most popular books that have been translated in over 20 languages. His latest book is called Different: Gender Through the Eyes of a Primatologist.

In this episode, I talk to Frans de Waal about sex and gender. As a primatologist, he shares his research findings on the biological differences between male and female primates. Despite obvious distinctions between masculine and feminine behavior, great apes have no trouble accepting non-binary individuals—a behavior we humans need to practice more of. Dr. Frans clears up what alpha male really means and debunks the “natural order” of male supremacy. We also touch on the topics of socialization, power, altruism, reproduction, and equality. 

Website: www.emory.edu/LIVING_LINKS

Facebook: /franspublic

Topics

  • What is a primatologist? 
  • Biology in the gender debate
  • Donna: the non-binary chimpanzee
  • Dominance, power, and prestige
  • Alpha males and alpha females 
  • Sex differences in play and aggression
  • Gender identity and self socialization
  • The Selfish Gene 
  • The evolution of the clitoris
  • The stigma of female sexuality
  • Extra-pair copulation and paternity testing
  • Competition, rivalry, and conflict resolution
  • Maternal instinct and xenophobia among primates
  • Embodied cognition 

Seven core insights

What 11 years of conversation
revealed

  • 01
    Being over DoingThe richness of presence and inner life over constant productivity.
  • 02
    Creativity over EfficiencyMaking space for imagination and originality in a world that prizes optimization.
  • 03
    Self-Actualization over AchievementBecoming the fullest version of yourself, not just reaching the next milestone.
  • 04
    Deep Fulfillment over HappinessPursuing meaning and depth rather than fleeting positive feelings.
  • 05
    Self-TranscendenceGoing beyond the self to serve something larger — the highest expression of human potential.
  • 06
    Meaning & CompassionThe threads that run through every great conversation — purpose, connection, and care.
  • 07
    Human PossibilityThe unwavering belief that every mind is capable of far more than we’ve been told.

About the guest

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11 years of
human possibility

478 episodes exploring creativity, intelligence, well-being, and what it means to be fully human. The archive is yours to explore.